Interview of the Foreign Minister of Germany
Mr. Joschka Fischer
By K.K. Katyal
The Hindu - 17 May 2000

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Germany seems to have embarked on a serious lead to engage India - of this, your visit is the most important element. What specifically is intended to be achieved in immediate and medium terms?

Mr. Fischer: First of all, India is now one of the most important players in the world and we can say will play a major role. India is politically and also economically a very important partner for the EU and it is difficult to have a national view and an European view. We are very much interested to hear the views of the Indian Government about the regional situation. We are concerned and we had a discussion about the situation in the sub- continent and we hope that there will be a positive process between the neighbours, between India and Pakistan. We expressed our concern on the nuclear issue in the sub-continent and I think it is very
important to maintain a substantial, deep and trustful relationship between our two governments. We are hoping for a very important cultural event (reference to the German Festival of India to begin later this year). We regret (the controversy) in Germany over the green cards but this was domestic politics by the Opposition.

Has it paid those who raised the issue in the election (the important poll in the biggest State, North Rhine Westphalia on Sunday)?

This issue was rejected by the majority of voters - they rejected the position of the Christian Democratic Party. It is very unfriendly. It is foolish, when we are looking to our own interests, to take such a position (reference to the opposition criticism of the green cards for Indians).

Two years ago, the bilateral relations took a difficult turn - in the wake of India's nuclear tests. That phase looks to be a thing of the past. This much is evident from the intensity and frequency of contacts. What, precisely, was the turning point?

We are a non-nuclear nation. We are concerned about the regional or global arms race especially nuclear weapons race not only in the sub-continent but also in the surroundings - in West Asia there are strong efforts to speed up long range missile technology. We fear it could lead to regional de- stabilisation. Therefore, it is very important to have these discussions. We are very much interested in discussions with our Indian counterparts and of course, there are differences...

But what was the turning point?

I do not see a turning point. May be the turning point was the change of the Government (in Germany). India is playing more and more an important role and particularly important were the visits of the Security Adviser (Mr. Brajesh Mishra) and of the Foreign Minister (Mr. Jaswant Singh). We had also the visit of the U.S. President, Mr. Bill Clinton, to India which has shown that the United States is interested in improvement of the relations. There is no typical turning point but it was a steady change.

How far has the strategic dialogue between the two countries progressed. Its highlights?

The security dialogue is in Pakistan's strategic interest in the region. It is also in the interest of the role India plays as a nuclear power. It is based on the (factors) of regional stabilisation as well as India's interest in the European Union and of course, in Germany. Asia today is one of the most important continents but, at the same time, it seems from the European viewpoint very fragile and complicated specially on security issues. The dialogue is in our interest and, of course, in the interest of the relations between the strategic (positions) and economies. Economic reforms and opening of the Indian economy are the major elements for a stronger interest in India, together with the important role that India has to play in strategic matters.

On nuclear issues, the two sides have divergent views. What are the chances of initiatives for exploring areas in which their positions could be reconciled? Something like the dialogue between India and the U.S. Any specific ideas on the subject?

It would not be nice to tell or to have a discussion now or to open the dialogue through the newspapers (before meeting with my counterpart in New Delhi). This is a question I can answer at the end of the visit; after the talks. It will be impolite to explain our ideas before a very open discussion with my colleague.

Some of the G-8 nations adopted the approach of sanctions. Others are not for it. What is going to be the stand of Germany? The fact that development cooperation assistance was discontinued has not gone unnoticed in India.

Our position is quite clear: we see a close relation between all issues. We as a non-nuclear power are interested in security and stability - especially we do not want a nuclear arms race - and we are in close discussion with our Indian friends about our concerns. We had discussions at different levels. On the other side, we (got) a very good explanation of the position of the Indian side. We are now at a point where sanctions are not in the centre of our discussions, not only with us but also with Mr. Clinton. Sanctions reflected concerns about new arms race. We are not only looking at India, but also there is Pakistan. There is China around. We as a non- nuclear nation are concerned about developments in the world of today and we want to talk to our friends about that.

You mean with the passage of time the focus has shifted. It is not the same thing as it was.

From my point of view, we will focus on improvement of relations. We had the G-8 decision which still exists. But I hope step by step with improved discussions, we can have a productive development in the future. This would be very helpful. India is one of the leading powers of the world and as a nuclear power, has, from our point of view, strong responsibilities for international order.

How would you describe the prospects of economic cooperation in trade and investment?

I will be accompanied by a strong delegation of the German business community. Many business companies are engaged in India but we are looking forward to India improving its relations with the European Union. We are ready for an open dialogue. When talking about economy, we must think of the E.U. because Europe is the key factor for our economy. We cannot separate that, we can have bilateral agreements but for economic and trade relations we have to think along double lines - Berlin on one hand and Brussels on the other. I think the Indian Government knows that very well.

Is there going to be a joint declaration at the end of the discussion and what is it going to be like?

There is a document in preparation for the common efforts.

Germany is going to be the Head of the South Asia Task Force (on nuclear issues) under a G-8 arrangement. This does not create a very happy reaction in India. Your views?

Within the G-8, (the chairmanship of the Group) is always transferred every half year - from a non-nuclear to a nuclear state. In the second half of the year, we will have its chairmanship. We hope that we can have productive results. This Force was created by the G-8 and there is a specific mechanism for transferring chairmanship.

How does Germany look at the situation in South Asia - on India- Pakistan issues in particular? Germany, on its own and as part of the E.U. has called for the resumption of dialogue. That was also the stand of the U.S. but it was modified somewhat after Mr. Clinton's visit - the U.S. now would like Pakistan to take the first credible step to create proper environment for talks. Obviously, the U.S. saw the strength of the Indian sentiment against trans-border terrorism.

We condemn strongly terrorist attacks of all kinds in India - and everywhere in the world. When you had to suffer the hijacking of the plane, immediately we were in contact with the Indian authorities and asked whether they needed any help. We were shocked and deeply concerned; condemnation of terrorist acts is part of our policy. Secondly, we were in full support of the Lahore process because we think this was a very good track for dialogue and there could be a possibility of clarifying the positions and then to find solutions. We still fully support this idea. I think it is very important. On the other side, we understand not only the concerns of our Indian partners but also their commitment to the dialogue and the problems which were created in this process which India was telling us were not created by it. What we can do is to restore a climate where problems can be solved by dialogue and not by the use of force or by confrontation.

Of late, there is a new awareness of the importance of the sanctity of the Line of Control in Jammu & Kashmir. Your comments?

It was never questioned by Germany or the European Union and, therefore, we hope that this problem will be solved peacefully and by dialogue. It is not a question theoretically of the Line of Control because there will be no peace if there is armed infiltration or terrorism, cross-border terrorism. What we can do or will do is to support the forces of peace and this means acceptance of the existing borders. In Europe we know for centuries there are two possibilities - not to accept borders which means war, or to accept borders, sit down on the table, try to find a solution peacefully. I think we are for the second possibility.

To vary the subject, what is Germany's stand on reforming the U.N., so as to bring it in tune with the current realities? And your views on India's claim for a permanent seat in an expanded Security Council?

Our position is quite clear - we think the U.N. structure, specially the Security Council, reflects the structure of the world of the Cold War, not of the 21st century. Things are changing. We are in full support of the reform of the structure of the U.N. and the Security Council. We are in favour of the opening of the Security Council for new members. We are working for our membership together with Japan. There are regional groups and in one of these regional groups India is at the top. But you also know that in regional groups, not only in yours but in ours, there is some sort of competition and I think it will not be too easy to overcome this obstacle. With the announcement of the US Secretary of State that they will be ready to open the Security Council (strength) to 21, there can be a positive signal.

The regional grouping test is a complicated matter. The better course is to decide the matter on merit.

We are in strong support for India. You are one of the biggest and most important powers in the world and we rely on your support.